Interview/Regarding Canon City Sanitarium
NP
[September 24,] 1905
Previously unpublished. +NoteOne or more typed copies of this document contain additional Ellen White handwritten interlineations which may be viewed at the main office of the Ellen G. White Estate.
Report of Interview with Drs. Wade and Hills Regarding the Canon City Sanitarium 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 1
Mrs. E. G. White: There were some things that were presented to me in reference to Dr. Place putting a sanitarium a short distance [from the Boulder Sanitarium]. That is something that was never done in all our experience. It never had been done. Then there were other representations made, which I dare not now say what they were until my mind is just as clear as possible. It is written somewhere, but I have not been able to find where. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 2
(Some conversation ensued in reference to the location of Canon City. It was said to be about one hundred and eighty miles or nearly two hundred miles by rail from Boulder. It was then suggested that in order to refresh her mind with the situation, Sister White reread the statement regarding the enterprise, as dictated by Dr. Hills. The statement was then read.) 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 3
E. G. White, reading: “Which remain in the treasury.” What does that mean? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 4
Dr. Hills: It is not sold out. It is not sold to any one. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 5
E. G. White: Now I do not know as I am prepared to say much. The difficulty has ever presented itself with linking up with unbelievers. In every institution that we have had, it has been a forbidden thing to do that. There was a danger. We cannot depend on the minds of any one who is a transgressor of the law of God, with the Bible open before them. We cannot depend on them, because the enemy works the mind, and therefore I would not consider that it was any favor from the light that was presented to me, but it would prove a hindrance in the end that you do not understand now, because the enemy is working constantly through his agents. They may be ever so favorable, but notwithstanding that, there will be crises that will come; and as these crises come, our people will be brought into a position of extreme trials, if they mingle and have been bound up in any way with the worldlings. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 6
Dr. Hills: That whole thing is bound up in that word “treasury.” We saw that thing, and we saw that if we accepted any support whatsoever from the world, and allowed them to have any part in the management of it, they would do as you say, because they cannot be depended upon. But we arranged it so, and they are willing to have it so, that while they are interested in a money way, they must be absolutely silent as regards the management of it whatsoever. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 7
W. C. White: Is not that contrary to the principles of a stock company? Is not the foundation principle of a stock organization that each man shall be interested according to his investment? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 8
Dr. Hills: I meant to say that they never could control it in any way. They will have their interests, because they own the stock; but the controlling interests will always be with us. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 9
Dr. Wade: When this first came up, that was the very first question brought up by the businessmen, and they made us pledge that it would never pass out of our hands. Mr. Baker said, “I want this fixed so that it will never pass out of Dr. Wade’s hands, because we know that the Adventist people are a success in the sanitarium business, and we want it held in their hands.” 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 10
W. C. White: Well, you can acknowledge your intention, but you cannot bind the thing. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 11
Dr. Hills: But supposing we always owned a majority of the stock, that settles that proposition; they cannot get away from it. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 12
W. C. White: Do not the minorities in a government largely influence a government? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 13
Dr. Hills: They may try, but the government is there just the same. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 14
Dr. Wade: If it was thought best, there are Seventh-day Adventists that will take this stock, without selling a dollar to outsiders. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 15
W. C. White (to E. G. White): The statement was that if they wanted to be free from outsiders, that they could sell this stock to Seventh-day Adventists. There are Seventh-day Adventists that would take it. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 16
E. G. White: The institution that has been established in Colorado, the representation has been to me that that should be cleared out before the means should be drawn from our people that should be cleared off; and let that stand no longer the reproach it has been; and Brother Place has not carried the thing as he ought to have carried it. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 17
Dr. Hills: That could certainly be done, and without interfering with this other matter at all. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 18
Dr. Wade: It really would help the other matter, because it would unify everybody in that Conference. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 19
E. G. White: What is the entire price of this site? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 20
Dr. Hills: It is all paid for, it is all in our hands now, clear of debt. We own the well and own the land. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 21
E. G. White: It is the building you have got to put up? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 22
Dr. Hills: Yes. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 23
E. G. White: Now I do not know as I can say anything more about the matter. I see it looks like a very favorable opportunity, but cannot that institution be cleared before you have to draw from any source to make your buildings? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 24
Dr. Hills: That is what we were anxious to do—was to get the means without calling upon our people. If we did call, they would respond, but we did not want to do that, because we want their strength and support to go to Boulder, and we can get this money from other people and have it in such a shape that we will have the controlling of it, while they may have a voice in the matter. It never will go out of our possession; it will remain among this people, while we are using this outside means. The people there at Canon City are very anxious for it. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 25
Dr. Wade: Another thing: when a change of politics comes, we may not get that donation. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 26
W. C. White: What are the conditions on which that $20,000 are offered you? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 27
Dr. Wade: We have on our part to agree to expend a certain amount of money in the erection of the building. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 28
W. C. White: How much? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 29
Dr. Wade: Forty thousand dollars. That is substantially correct. If we have the state donate us this labor, this item will come in that, the cement will come in that, the lumber will come in that, so that while the original outlay seemed to be great, the fact is that we can make a good showing on a comparatively small outlay. I am satisfied that less than $20,000 will do it. We were to put 40,000 improvements on the property. Everything that is donated to us counts on the improvements. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 30
Dr. Hills: It has been our purpose to get at this thing with a small actual outlay and at the same time keep it where we could handle it. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 31
W. C. White: Now you see it is this way. If my opinions were of any value, I could talk a lot. If Mother were free to express her own opinions, she could talk a lot; but that is not what you want. Representations made to her led her to write what she did. Certain things were presented to her, and she expressed that the best she could and sends it to you. Now if she does not feel free to say much today, the best way is for you to give a statement of it and let her take the matter before the Lord; and if she gets additional light for you, she will get it to you as soon as she can. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 32
Dr. Hills: We wanted to be sure that everything was understood about it, so that she would know what to consider. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 33
W. C. White: I went over this with her the other morning. She read the matter, and we discussed the different things, and I gave her all the information I could. I see that it is fairly clear in her mind. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 34
Dr. Hills: We want it to be clearly understood that there is a way to do this thing right now without in any ways interfering with Boulder, and that it is possible to have a well-equipped institution without any expense to our people. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 35
E. G. White: How soon do you return? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 36
Dr. Hills: We wanted to go very soon, within a few days. We are planning to leave San Francisco on Friday. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 37
E. G. White: Now if there is anything comes to my mind, and I can find what I had written out, I will let you have it. The presentation is very favorable that you make, but why the matter should have been presented before me, in the matter of warning, I do not know. It was this: one point was, it was not for the best to begin to raise means till that institution was clear. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 38
Dr. Hills: That is why we came to talk with you about it, because we wanted it to be clear to your mind that we are not to interfere with the other institution. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 39
E. G. White: That was one point, that that institution had stood as a reproach so long. It might have been cleared. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 40
W. C. White: Then the other point you have mentioned—the danger of linking up with worldly men and using worldly capital, the danger of that influencing the enterprise differently than the promoters intended. Then you mentioned a third point to me this morning, that you have not spoken this afternoon, and that was the prospect of disappointment in the combination of men. Perhaps you have something to say about that. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 41
E. G. White: There would be, in connection with any combination of outside parties, disappointment. You need not expect anything else than that there would be disappointment; and because the enemy moves upon minds, they will decide one way or the other. You see decisions will be made one way or the other, and that in moving very guardedly, you will save a lot of burden of trouble. The light that has been given me is that the co-operation of outside parties is not safe to link up <with>, and [your] leaning upon them is not safe. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 42
Dr. Wade: In selecting these men, they have promised to resign from that board at any time we wish them to resign. There are two men who are not Seventh-day Adventists who promised to resign at any time we wanted to put another man in their place. One of these men is a banker. He is considering the Sabbath question very seriously, and he has told one of our ministers, Elder Grainger, that he intended some time, as soon as he gets his business in shape, to keep the Sabbath. The other man is a Scandinavian who is very much interested in the truth. We have hoped and prayed for these two men, and hoped that we could bring them into the truth, and that if they did not accept the truth, we would place Seventh-day Adventists in there. It seemed that God directed us in selecting these two men. Dr. Hills and I prayed over this question a great deal, and we were led right back to these men every time. We realize this whole thing, the question of bringing outside men in with us; but they are only elected till the fifteenth day of next December, long before we would commence any active work. We have hoped, especially Mr. Evans, that he would take his stand for the truth. But we have looked ahead. We have seen the truth of what you have said, the danger of having men tied up with us that were not of our faith. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 43
We guarded some of these questions in binding the institution to keep the Sabbath, while that can be literally true, unless we had the complete control they could influence it one way or the other. For that reason we had their term expire December 15, 1905. And the institution, having the control of stock in the treasury, can choose exactly the men they want to take their place. We have hoped that by associating ourselves with these men, and setting a godly example before them, we could help them to the truth; but we ourselves thoroughly believe it is better to have the entire five staunch Seventh-day Adventists, just as you told us. I thoroughly believe that to be a fact; but we hoped, if these two men were associated with us, we could help them. There are five men on the board, and three have the control, and the three are Seventh-day Adventists. Of the other two men, Mr. Evans is a banker, and Mr. Frederickson is county treasurer. They are both Christian men, though not having accepted the Sabbath. I believe they are free to be led out into more truth. But the thing I wanted to make plain is that their term expires December 15; this coming December they will be directors no longer after that, unless we should reelect them. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 44
W. C. White: It seems to me that I have a very clear picture of what you are doing, and I think that Mother has as clear a picture in her mind as she can get of something she has not personally seen. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 45
Dr. Wade: I have been in private practice for six years and have built up a patronage around there, and I want the institution to give my patients treatment in. In private practice it is impossible to practice medicine without the use of drugs, because the majority of people are too poor to hire a nurse. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 46
W. C. White: Do you expect to leave your practice? 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 47
Dr. Wade: I will put my private practice into it. We are about twenty miles from Cripple Creek—65,000 to 75,000 people. They come to Canon City when they get sick, and at the present time they are scattered around amongst houses. If there is a sanitarium there, I can fill it from Cripple Creek many times over, and it would never draw a patient from the Boulder Sanitarium. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 48
E. G. White: About the drawing patients, I do not think that is anything of an objection. Brother and Sister Kress have felt very fearful that some one would establish a sanitarium in Adelaide. I wrote to them that they need not have any fears of that; because [of] the sanitariums existing in cities, there would be plenty that could be accommodated and never interfere with them at all. But the interest that would be awakened would be rather to their advantage. As far as that is concerned, I have not anything on that, it was the combination; and how much this combination takes in, it seemed an element that <would be objectionable>. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 49
Dr. Wade: We can eliminate that entirely. We came to get advice on all these questions. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 50
E. G. White: I believe the Lord will give light on this matter, that you feel that you will understand about the matter. I cannot say anything more now; I must get the particulars that I have in order to see what I have written. 20LtMs, Ms 185, 1905, par. 51