A. G. Daniells: Then, instead of stopping with securing property they became financially responsible for institutions that swamped all that property. There is where they made the mistake.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 1

E. G. White: The light that I had was this: It was a reproof brought to one that was appointed for the special work of visiting and gathering in the means and seeing how this one or that one would donate or make his will—people who were old and feeble—what they would do with it after they got through with it. Well, did they have the privilege themselves of choosing how that should be appropriated, or did they put it right into the conference to be used as it pleased?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 2

G. A. Irwin: It was both ways. In some it was indicated, in others it was put in to be used as seemed fit.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 3

Mrs. E. G. White: The first I knew anything about this was [when] it came out in the Bulletin, I think, where they invited, or urged, that the General Conference should give the interest of the school debt—£20,000. They thought they had quite a good slice from this bogus man—which we do not know who he is nor what he is—while they were going to kind of ride on that, and make that a lever to give them the interest; and I understand they did. Then they had got so far that they concluded [that] they wanted the whole debt of pretty nearly £18,000; make it a jubilee and give the whole thing.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 4

Well, after that came, in the night season we were in a company very much like this, there were a few more, and the talk was pro and con. One could not see how that it was a liberal, Godlike thing to give the interest and the whole debt; they could not understand it. And others were urging, “Oh, give it, give it, give it right out. Show your liberality,” and all this. I thought then, just as it has been so many times, one full of dignity stepped forward from the company, and he turned toward the authorities, and those in responsible places in our institutions and in the General Conference, and with great decision commanded them.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 5

With great decision he said, The Conference has no moral right to make naught of that debt, to give it. It is not theirs to do it. It belongs to the people, the people who have sustained the Conference. It is the people’s money, and they have no right, loaded with debt, to take and assume another debt, because they are stewards of the means that should be rightly appropriated. The means were not rightly appropriated when the addition was put up upon that school ground—[the] addition of the building. It was devoted away from its proper channel. All over the field is God’s vineyard. No one that shall carry on our school institutions or our sanitariums or any such thing should demand of the Conference, if they get a great burden of debt, that they [the Conference] have got to shoulder it, and then talk of mercy and compassion and all that.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 6

Where is the mercy and compassion, he said, to the fields that never have had the standard of truth uplifted in them? Here, where the great light has been shining all around you in messages of warning, in messages of encouragement, and in messages of truth, had you followed the light that God has given, there would not have been a debt on the school. There would not have been an institution established in Boulder, for the Conference to appropriate these means that do not belong to them. They had no right to appropriate the means that they appropriated in the Boulder institution. And here it is, eating out the vitals of the things that ought to have the most vitality now existing, to support the foreign missions.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 7

The fields are all ripe, and everything should be used that it is possible to be used. It should not, he said, be invested in buildings; it should not be invested in worldly enterprises. God will blow upon it all if they do, because the cause of God calls for His money now, and He wants everyone that can to lift and to advance His work in the earth. In the sanitariums, instead of adding building to building, and building to building, let them go into communities, [go] where there are cities, and where there are sick to be cared for.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 8

Everything is to be carried, this Instructor said, everything is to be carried as God carried the work. It is not to be carried to pretense in show, to gain popularity. It is not to be carried to extremes to gain the opinions of people. We are to let it be understood that we are doing a work for God, and [do] everything that we can do, in behalf of the work of God, in a plain and simple manner, but with helpful facilities to carry that on. And all the surplus will be because God helps the physicians, because God helps the nurses. It is not to be grasped right in their arms. They are not to say, “Now, all that there is in this institution belongs to me to say where it shall go, and I will have this and that and the other.”14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 9

From the light that has been given me a substantial company of men should understand how it shall go. It is impossible for me to describe it. It is no kind of use. It is a despairing thing. Doctor Kellogg was placed before me, his situation, his leading in this direction, and his leading in that direction; his getting this institution, and that, and the other institution established, for what? Why to help a class of people that cannot show the solidity of the work, or the true bearing of the message that we have to bear to the people. The great work that is to be a warning, and the whole earth is to be filled with its glory, is the third angel’s message.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 10

That message, he said, was to be the great testing message. It is to the law and to the testimonies, if they speak not according to this word there is no light in them. Now, here it is, to raise up a people among the downcast. The flaming notices go out of what good is done. There are a few souls that stand. But it is much like a rolling stone. You push it and pull it, and drag it, and get it part way up the hill, and down it goes again. You pull with all your might and get it halfway up again, and down it goes again; and there are a few that will be rolled up to the top, a few that will enter the kingdom.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 11

I wrote him [Dr. Kellogg], and said I, For Christ’s sake do not you, or anyone else, ever write any more, or allow anything to go into your health papers, how we prayed with a man who was drunk, and who gave himself to God and is saved. Saved, said I, when is he saved? This man that stood before us gave just the very same interpretation of the work that was being done. It was a work to gather up all round in certain places, to do a certain work, [but] not a solid work. It is not a work that can say, This is the chosen of God.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 12

When churches are built up, why, people can see that it is something substantial, something to last, and it is not something that is to run right down the hill, and you cannot see where it is going to.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 13

This was presented by the one that stood before us, that everything that was of the character of the Gospel Wagon that was going through the country meant just nothing. You go to gather up afterwards, and what do you see? The whole aftersight is before me, and what did I see? There was nothing substantial or solid in it all; and there it was, presented to me in that light. All these things coming out form the branches of the work. It is as the body to the arm. All the medical missionary work is the arm to the body.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 14

The truth of God is to go forth [from our] sanitariums as was laid out before me again and again. And at this time, when the conversation was going on, he pointed to the Doctor. Putting his hand on his shoulder he said: “You are building pyramids to tumble down and crush you, because there is nothing to hold it.” If we do a thing for foreign countries, to gather in the means, why, we cannot swamp it all in this work. In that [which] they call the medical missionary work everything, everything in the way of means, is grasped at now, to get the Doctor out of the debt that has placed him where everything is in a perilous condition. This speaker set before them how it was, how that he had spoken to the discredit of the ministers and the ministry, and a portion of the work.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 15

They should have taken hold of the work so that they could carry it, that this medical missionary work, and the ministry should be connected; but it belonged more to every state, more to every city. And there is a home to be established to educate workers. And in regard—let me tell you—in regard to homes for infants, the light that I have has not been strong in that direction at all. Here are those that are perishing for want of knowledge, and the outside interests should be taken care of, but to hang upon a people all these great enterprises makes them tired—to hang these things upon them, and take every drop of blood out of them, so that they have no power to carry the message and uplift it where it has never yet been lifted.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 16

Well, now, if I should tell the Doctor I expect it would [be] the finishing stroke, and I have withheld it. About the Gospel Wagon, I have said to him over and over again, “Doctor, you are getting too many responsibilities. From the light given me the third angel’s message, the banner, was in your hands, and you were riding prosperously. But,” said I, “there was a company all around you; and they were working upon you until that banner was trailing right on the ground, and they were about to take it right out of your hand. That was written, from time to time, for two or three years. And as you have gathered all these responsibilities upon you, there is nothing to support them.”14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 17

As long as the world will come forward, and it is a new thing ... but now you have got the institutions. He has written to me that he broke up one. What are you going to do? This question was asked. What are you going to do? There is no foundation, so what are you going to do? Where is your man to sustain them? The people of God who have been raised up with a knowledge of the truth have become confused. They have lost their confidence in the General Conference because of the misappropriation of means, and the Lord does not move upon their hearts to pass in their means to the Conference. That is why Elder Haskell is going to help Elder Irwin.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 18

These things have been laid out before me from time to time ever since before I left Battle Creek. Not the things about the medical missionary work, but about getting these great buildings, etc. to give character, etc. to the work. There was one that stood in our midst on one occasion, and he said: “What gives character to the work like character? It is the character that gives character to the work. It is not any show in buildings, it is the integrity of character.” We have got to take a straightforward course, just the same as we have taken from the commencement [of] the work. And when we go back to that simplicity, we will see the power of God manifested, because the time has come.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 19

These things have been presented to me over and over again; but about the doctor I do not know what to do. I gave him a caution, and sent it to Brother Irwin, too. He is the only man that received it besides Dr. Kellogg, but I knew that he had to have it. I knew just what was coming at the Conference. I knew that Dr. Kellogg was going to say, We will grasp the medical missionary work and be entirely dependent from the Conference. I knew that was what was going to be done.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 20

I produced everything encouraging that I could, just as I told you about the angel’s hand holding his hand, and how the Lord had placed him in that position as a steward. That is what the Lord showed me, and if he would not be like Nebuchadnezzar he would become a power. As soon as he began to feel that he was a man of power, and he began to demerit the ministry and make the medical missionary work the body and not the hand, the Lord would just as surely leave him in the position in which Nebuchadnezzar was left. The last [thing to do] is to present it to Brother Irwin that he may present it to the people.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 21

Well, the Doctor understands it, and he says: “You have forsaken me. I thought you would stand by me.” He wrote to me: “If you will send me word, I will raise you $5,000 in sixty days,” but no word came from me. Why? Because from the light that had been given me, he was making large speeches in every meeting where he could get access, to make the medical missionary work the body and not the hand. Therefore he was putting a sentiment into the hearts of the people to sustain the medical missionary work and make donations. Why, of course you can go and pick up all the poor and all these, and you can make a draft upon the cause that will bankrupt every institution that we have got in existence; but, you see, the thing has to move, [but] not disproportionately.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 22

In every city, wherever there is a company, we should move there and pitch the tent and labor. The light given in regard to Stanmore was that the work must be done afterwards, and we had got to establish a church. But they had all their preparations made to have a great spread and great expense. But they did just as I said, and you know how it came out. We got in and had our tents up before the enemy knew what it was. And we preached on the first Sabbath and Sunday before the ministers had a chance to warn the people. The ministers had all gone for their vacations, and when they came back they found their whole camp had been taken, and they were left out.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 23

Then Dr. Caro came in and raised an intense interest in the health work. There was the arm brought in; and so the work is to move solidly. Well, we have moved in that way in Brisbane, and in Newcastle. Now the medical missionary work is working in; it is the arm. And you see it works both ways. It has created confidence, and it has created an interest. Then shall we drop everything else and make everything of the medical missionary work? No, we have got to go hand in hand.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 24

In every place where there is a church established, we want such men to come in as Dr. Caro has come. It has not been easy work, and he has worked hard all through. That is the way that we leave something solid behind us. And then there was the cooking school, and that left an interest. There is a church there now that begins to pay tithe, and as that church pays tithe, there is money coming into the conference to help in those other places, to raise a fund to send ministers to every place. That is just they way the Lord wants it worked.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 25

But the words spoken by this man that stood before us were that the General Conference had no moral right to use the funds of the people to do that, to take up and absorb that work, as Dr. Kellogg would absorb it, to do a work for scattered bodies. Now, these that come to sanitarium are treated, and have an opportunity to see and hear the light there.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 26

The light came to me only about two weeks ago: “There, Doctor, is your place. You are to work and to bring facilities in talent into the sanitarium. And there is your meetinghouse built, which you said was especially to have a converting influence upon the people.” And that was all right, but not to go right out, and his influence cannot work the people. He makes it appear, in a queer way, that he abounds in money, and that he has got [an] abundance. Well, then you know why they think they can all come right in and be clothed and fed, and many that are fed and clothed are brought up out of their degradation and reformed. They print the facts of the reformations, but they do not print the facts of the backsliders, those that do not amount to anything.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 27

The light I have is that our sanitariums that we build up, and that we invest our money in, and that we try to get others to put their money in and build up, that those sanitariums were to grasp all the money that the General Conference had for missionary purposes, and ministers to go out and elevate the standard, it was not to do that. Now things have got to come on a right basis.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 28

Well, I have written and written and written. I do not know how far it would reach if it were all put in one line. There must be a fund to support foreign missions, and this work is to go forward, to advance, and [to] establish the truth wherever it has been. But the first place is the English-speaking people. We are to make centers among the English-speaking people. Here is a center, and we are to make it the very strongest force and educate these people. Let them bring in the people of other languages, here to the center, to be educated in their language, and they will go out from this people to the different parts of the world. We are the nearest, we are nearer than the General Conference.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 29

Instead of building those great buildings in Battle Creek, let them build less places for the orphans in that and other localities. Let the very churches, the very places where they are, care for the sick and the suffering that are around them. When you begin to build institutions for them, there is no end to it; and it embraces everything that we shall have to carry the last message to the world. It takes up everything, and God does not want it thus. This has been opened before me again and again, yet I do not dare to say, “You shall not do any medical missionary work,” because it is a power—just as the arm [is] connected with the body.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 30

But the body has to work the arm and not the arm the body, and it is there the Doctor has made his mistake. He wants that the arm should work the body. He is determined to bring it to pass, but he cannot do it. Now the man is in a condition where he finds himself all worn out, and who is going to take care of all his responsibilities? He has been the moving one, it is his voice that has run these things. And if that voice had kept proportionate with, and sustained, the ministry, it would have been altogether more appropriate.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 31

W. C. White: As you have spoken quite fully of the relation between the medical and religious work, I would like to ask one or two questions that are on the mind of several of us. In Battle Creek the Conference was asked to support a chaplain in the sanitarium, and it was done for a while. Then the sanitarium managers proposed that the tithes of the workers should go toward the support of the religious work in the sanitarium, and toward this benevolent work. Do you think that that would be a right principle for us, to let the tithes of the workers in medical lines be separated from the Conference, and go to the Medical Association? Or should the tithes all go to one treasury, and then the Conference be liberal in sending ministers to work in connection with the medical work?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 32

E. G. White: How could it be like the body and the arm unless it worked in just that way? There is to be no division.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 33

W. C. White: It has been proposed by some that our institutions, not the individuals but the institutions themselves, should recognize the sovereignty of God, and should pay tithes on its increase. If the institutions were to pay tithes, could we make a division there, and let the publishing house and the school pay to the union conference, and let the medical institutions all pay to the Medical Association? Would you favor that kind of a division?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 34

E. G. White: I could not say unless I should have it all laid out before my mind. I tell you as nearly as I can what light I have, and that is the best I can do. I cannot tell you anything that has not been specified to me.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 35

W. C. White: I have thought of how God intended that the unity of Israel should be restored by all going to Jerusalem to worship. And when Jeroboam saw that their going to Jerusalem was likely to make a union and bring about a united kingdom again, he set up two calves to save the people from going to Jerusalem. And I have felt as though we need to study that before we suggested tithe-paying to two different places. I have thought what we ought to look out that we do not establish two places for tithe-paying and two places for worship.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 36

E. G. White: I know that the medical work and the ministry, the medical work and the church work, should all be one interest; that I know. And there should not be a separation concerning the medical missionary work, for we are all laboring to one end.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 37

G. A. Irwin: Have you any more to say to us on these general principles rather than that we should ask you questions?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 38

E. G. White: The general principles that I have spoken upon weighed the heaviest upon my mind, and that was the way that Dr. Kellogg is running things. It is going to kill everything. We have no right to create any more that we can carry. God does not want us to create responsibility after responsibility. It is presented to me as a selfish ambition. I expect that [it] is what hurt the Doctor. It is a selfishness to create all he can. When we have created, we have got to see that we can keep the breath of life in it. We may create and the breath of life may go out, and then what is to be done with the object of our creation?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 39

W. C. White: Could we not do the medical missionary work in different localities without taking upon ourselves the burden and the expense of building up big sanitariums anywhere? Could we not get along without building a sanitarium, and do the medical missionary work without expense or burden?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 40

E. G. White: In a center like this there should be a sanitarium, and yet we are never to pile up buildings as they have in Battle Creek, because it is a wrong principle. It has been sounding forth for the last twenty years that it should not be done. But it is done; and it is not because God wanted it so. There are Detroit, Kalamazoo, and different cities in America; take those buildings [in Battle Creek] in a cluster together; if they could have been separated, and part of them [had] gone to Chicago, Detroit, part to Grand Rapids, and part to these different localities, there they would have had a representation large enough to raise the confidence of the people, and that would give character to our work.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 41

But, you see, they have piled it into Battle Creek. They have got an enormous church; the more they build, the bigger the church is. The people leave the little churches, where they were a support and strength, and come into Battle Creek where there is nothing for them to do, only to be jealous, suspicious, and accusing of one another. That great center should not have existed. But they got in the way, and it seems as though neither the word of the Lord nor anything else will hinder them from carrying it out until they have nothing. There is trouble coming there, but it is coming, and our people are in a very poor condition to meet it.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 42

There is trouble coming, you may be sure; but because our own people have betrayed us to the enemy, they have destroyed that influence that God wanted to exist with the people there. The sanitarium has done a good work in the conversion of many, many souls, and the light has gone out to all people because God has moved on the hearts of the people that have come in connection with the truth. The Doctor is in danger of taking glory to himself on account of those responsibilities that he has carried. It is true that God has helped him, but it will not do for man to take glory to himself. We see how it is now. Here are all those responsibilities, and the man is crushing under it.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 43

E. W. Farnsworth: If we go into these places scattered all around and hire buildings for our sanitarium work, I suppose it will cost from £100 to £150 a year to get rent. We will have to do that or build a small place. Have you any light in regard to which is best?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 44

E. G. White: The Lord will give you light when you come right on the ground. He will not have you create anything unless He will give you knowledge and wisdom to do it. Do think of that, everybody. You want wisdom; believe that the wisdom comes from God. You can begin very little, and see and feel your way along until you can see how you can go. The Lord does not make the rose in full bloom; it is first the bud and then the bloom, that is how the Lord works.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 45

W. C. White: Shall New Zealand, when they think the time has come to build a sanitarium, begin to build without counsel, or shall they counsel with the members of the Medical Association Board?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 46

E. G. White: I think so, because the light was that this is a center, and the center for the work here. We ought not to leave a center where God has established us to do a work, and people that are responsible here, and people that understand the work, and have been in the work. You do not want us to feel that we cannot establish anything until we go to Battle Creek, because you had the very power that He would use, the very intelligence, and the very understanding of the field. We may call those that have knowledge and wisdom right in our midst here. You take those in New Zealand; they should counsel with those that have been at work in this very same kind of a work that they want to do, and take their counsel about that thing.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 47

J. J. Wessels: Should this association work with the object of establishing a large sanitarium in New South Wales, with the view of establishing branch institutions in Victoria, New Zealand, and other places?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 48

E. G. White: The people need enlightening, and if it is right in their reach, they will. A big institution lays upon the one that stands at the head a great responsibility, and if he is a man that has intense sympathy, he will be an old man before he is hardly a young or middle-aged one.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 49

W. C. White: We have planned to have our buildings and institutions here that would accommodate one hundred patients, and one hundred physicians, helpers, and students; that we would build the first building so that it would accommodate a family of one hundred fifty patients, and fifty helpers, but afterwards it could be enlarged.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 50

E. G. White: Get them educated, get them educated; special plans must be made for that. [When] a call comes, “We want you to send us help,” then, they are prepared to say, “We will send this one.” That is the way it should be done. We have got to co-operate, and the Lord God of heaven will be our Helper.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 51

G. B. Starr: This morning the great question was in electing a chairman to this board, whether it should be a medical man, or whether it should be a business man. Shall it be a physician who has a knowledge of the work, or shall it be a business man?14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 52

E. G. White: If the one that has the great responsibility has got the intellect enough to take these patients and carry them through successfully with the help of God—[he] should be [qualified to be] chairman for this medical missionary work that he has to do.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 53

E. R. Caro: Your idea is that the medical missionary work is the essential part of the association, and that the business is secondary.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 54

E. G. White: The business is important; they should go together.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 55

In closing Sister White said: I have said nothing at this time to accuse, or for anyone to make use of, in reference to Dr. Kellogg at all. It is only because he wants to do so much that he is killing himself. And do not anyone feel that I have said one word to discount Dr. Kellogg; only [that] he wants to do so much that he is embracing too much. So do not anyone use any of my words that shall in any way hurt Dr. Kellogg, or present it that I have tried to hurt him, because I have not.14LtMs, Ms 103a, 1899, par. 56

Ms 103, 1899

Ms 103b, 1899