W.W.S.: It was arranged with Brother Knox that Brother Hibbard should stay in Oakland and carry on the work, seeing that he was with us right through.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 3

E.G.W.: If I had another opportunity of speaking in meeting, I should have said something before all our people, when I was agonizedly distressed about the indifference of many here—the ministers and others—about going out, launching out. They would hover right over the church—young men. Brother Knox and others would write out the discourse for them to preach. And you know it is the worst thing that anybody could do for any human mind—one man’s mind being instilled into another man’s mind. Our work is to go to God.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 4

I talked and I talked and I labored. Well, we had some very remarkable meetings. We got the office hands together, and there seemed such a spirit of complete indifference that I felt in an agony of mind, and I said, “It is time that we sought the Lord.” We knelt down to pray, and I think I prayed twice while we were knelt down, but it seemed as though the Lord was a great way off. This was soon after I came from Australia. We had a praying season, and I bore a testimony, and the power of God came down in that meeting. The angels of God were there. It was a remarkable meeting. I do not know as I ever have had a more remarkable meeting with the office hands in Oakland than at that very meeting. The power and Spirit of God could be felt.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 5

We had two or three such meetings. But some way they did not carry it out, they did not keep alive, and the impression wore away because there was nobody there to build up the thing. It hurt me terribly. I did not know what to do.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 6

Then I told the brethren, You must do something; Oakland must be worked. And you know how at every camp meeting I pressed the matter that Oakland should be worked but went away with nothing done. Time and again I have had such special testimonies to bear.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 7

Then Brother Knox said, “We have got a man who is going to come and he will do the work.” Now, Brother Gardiner is a good man, but he can no more build up against any influence that shall come; he cannot do it. He cannot be a man of opportunity. I thought it would come out right in the end, but every time I would come it was just the same, over and over and over, and when it came to having the real spirituality to get right to work for a decided interest, I could not get it aroused.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 8

You know what testimonies I have borne in that church about the church. The individual church must go to work for those that were outside, and they should give life and soul to the work. But they would get up a few young men that could not do anything. They had no instruction. They needed somebody to tell them how to go to work, and to be with them.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 9

Wm. Saunders: May I say something? I think there has been a better state of feeling, more spirituality, since the Press went away, with those remaining, than there was before.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 10

E.G.W.: You see, they did not get any new element, nor educate the element—the ministers did not educate the element that they had—because they had not the spirituality themselves.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 11

Wm. Saunders: Another thing, the ministers we had here were editors, and their time was employed.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 12

E.G.W.: Now, Eld. Knox has not that capability to understand the spirituality that must be brought in from a real experimental knowledge, to labor around in Oakland. And so it went, over and over, in the very same way.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 13

Well, I told Brother and Sister Rice, we have got to have workers, but how to get them I do not know. Said I, My soul is burdened, burdened, burdened, and I do not know what we are going to do. Well, said they, Brother Gardiner is going around. Do you know that he has brought [even] one soul to the truth? Well, they could not say that he had. Then said I, What use is it to play with the service of God?21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 14

I heard that Brother and Sister Rice had gotten them a little place—that small house that they got from Brother Stickney (?). He offered that house for sale [because] he wanted to go to some different climate. (Well, he is dead now.) Brother and Sister Rice bought that little house, and then they worked early and late, early and late, to improve it. He was at work in the office as bookkeeper. They labored among the people. He would speak, and she would speak, and the people became interested. I was so glad. I charged them, “Brother Rice, you have capability to present the truth in a clear manner, but do not be too long. When you get through with your discourse, stop. It is that that wearies the hearers.” (I suppose you think that I ought to attend to my own case, for sometimes I talk over an hour. I do not get a chance very often.) Brother Rice has had to work against that, and I have been very plain with him.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 15

He did shorten up; and his wife—they were very much interested in her presentations, as she brought out things. “Well,” I said, “I will wait. I will not say anything one way or the other, and I will see how it comes out.” It was a representation that was given to me that they were helping the people more than anyone else by getting hold of the upper classes.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 16

Wm. Saunders: That was in Berkeley mostly.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 17

E.G.W.: I call it all Oakland. We came here when there were only a few—only six—Sabbathkeepers. (Relates early experiences with tent and local option, etc.)21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 18

We were in the very beginning of the work here in Oakland. I have had a very great interest, because it was our home. We settled here, and we tried to build up the work.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 19

Now I will go right to the truth of the matter. When I heard that Brother and Sister Rice could get into the higher classes, I was [as] thankful as any person you ever saw. I was so thankful because the light was given me that there were souls in the higher classes [who] would take hold of the truth if they would work for them, and then that would bring it up [i.e., strengthen the work.] ... When I heard that Brother and Sister Rice were doing this work, I encouraged them. I told them, it is the very work for you to do. Brother Rice cannot give himself to it as you can, because he is book-keeping all the week. He can speak some, but you can work through the week. So I felt very thankful about it.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 20

And then again the matter was presented, that it was just the work we must take hold [of] as a people, ministers and officers—to lay out a work that they should do, those that had capability. And so I kept telling, drilling them on that point; but my work was so constant in one place and another, with my book making, that I could not come. I wanted to come; they begged me to come and see how their meetings were going on. But I said, “Go on in the name of the Lord, humbly, meekly, in the name of the Lord, and He will be with you. Just as surely as there is a God in heaven, He will be with you.” Well, they did just as I told them to until the time came to change some in the office, and then he [Brother Rice] came and united with his wife.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 21

Well, I think they have tried in every way to reach the people, and with success. They have reached them with success, and I felt so thankful to the Lord.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 22

At the San Jose camp meeting, Brother Corliss came to me and said, “We must have an interview with you, Sister White.” “What is it?” I asked. “Well,” they said, “We want to remove Brother and Sister Rice from the place where they are. They had just got this building fixed, and the mother-in-law had bought them a cow. We want you to give your influence with us.” “Well,” said I, “What influence is it?” “Why, it is to send them away somewhere else.” Said I, “What is the matter?”21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 23

Well, they did not think things were moving right. Said I, “I do not know about these things, but let me tell you one thing, if Brother and Sister Rice are not capable spiritually and religiously to carry on the work here, they will carry themselves with them to Santa Cruz. They will carry themselves with them, so you see it would be a poor policy to send them off there. The first thing is to know what the matter is, and to take hold if it.”21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 24

But I would not have any conversation with Brother and Sister Rice. They wanted me to talk with them, but I would not.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 25

That night the matter was all laid out before me. There were persons in this Berkeley church that were meddlesome, envious, and childish, and they were just working, working, to get Brother Rice and his wife, to get hold of something that they could use [against them].21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 26

Well, they said [that] their children went to the theater. They have got just as well behaved children as I know of. But I do not know what took the daughter’s mind. She had a little one in her arms, and she stepped into the theater to see what it was. She wanted no more to do with it, and came out. But that went all over with the mischief makers. Then [they said] she dressed too richly. She did not dress like our people. (They were poor, and their people were wealthy, and they would give them the dresses that they had made.)21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 27

Well, I told them—I did not have a chance to speak a word with Brother and Sister Rice—but I told them it is the rich people that give them these dresses, and their own people. They think she does not dress properly, and so they give her clothing that she can wear, and she takes off all the [finery] as much as she can, and then she wears the clothing. Nearly all she has comes in that way.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 28

But they got envious because she could hold the people. She has good tact. She can hold the people.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 29

And there are two women here. The last time that I spoke, they sat right at my left hand. Do you remember what I said? I spoke just as plainly as it is possible for a woman to speak and not call names. The Lord gave me great freedom.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 30

When Sister Caro came, these two women went to her, an utter stranger to them, and they talked about Brother and Sister Rice, the most ridiculous things.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 31

Now, what about these two women? Brother Corliss and Brother Knox got it fixed up in their mind that Brother Rice had wages, and Sister Rice had wages; and why should she not have when she was acting as a minister, going around in these wealthy places to give readings, and getting people interested? They were embracing the truth, and I was so thankful to think they were doing it.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 32

They came right up at San Jose and told me about the matter, that they wanted me to handle the case. In the night season the whole particulars were opened before me, and I was not to be in haste to bring things to a head. I was to wait, and let them work out, but if I saw that there was any determined effort made to [drop] them, to get up an opinion in the church to drop them, or any such thing, I must demand in the name of the Lord for them to stop right where they were. I must not allow it. I was the only one that could do it, and that was the light that was given to me. In the night season that was opened.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 33

Now, I have not seen them; they have come up to see me, and I have said, No, I cannot see you or talk with you. All I say to you is, walk humbly with God. Keep right on your work, steadily, just as you have been. If they won’t hear in that place, go to another. Well, they went, they put them out in that place, and they went to another place. They had openings in almost every place.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 34

But they took these women that I told you [about]. They are the greatest mischief makers, and [they] put them right in to go around on their track. There, you see, was the greatest confusion. They would keep throwing out and throwing out, questioning right before the unbelievers, just presenting things in that light.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 35

Well, when Sister Caro came to me, [I] said, Do tell me who these women are. She opened to me that Brother and Sister Rice were the awfulest people, [that] they were the wickedest people, that they were doing this and that and the other, and a great mass of stuff that was perfectly horrible. I said, I will see them about it. But then the light came to me [that] the time was not yet, so I let it pass on.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 36

But I heard they were having a church meeting in Oakland, and [that] the case of Brother and Sister Rice was brought up, and he was deprived of his wages, and there was a great deal that they brought out of complaints that they were making about Brother and Sister Rice. I said to myself, I will go and see them; but matters came so pressing, and I could not go. I wrote to them, Do not make any aggressive warfare on Brother and Sister Rice. I am waiting for things to develop, but you let them alone.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 37

The very next thing I heard was they had come to cut them off from the church. Well, the time had come. I sent them a word just as quickly as I could send it: “Just as surely as you take one advanced step in that work that you have undertaken, then I will take advanced steps, I will take hold of this matter.” They were ready to empty them out of the church, disfellowship them. Well, I had to let the things pass, because I had to meet cases in Mountain View and in different places, and it was not just yet, but just as soon as they were going to empty them out I thought something should be done. “Just as surely,” said I, “as you take that step, I shall come right before the whole church, and will lay out the whole matter.” Then they withdrew it. “Don’t you take another step because you do not know what you are about.”21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 38

Now, these things have been passing along until we got to that camp meeting, then I saw how things were. They never asked Brother and Sister Rice onto the platform, and here were souls they had brought into the truth, and they had reached them in the higher classes. She had been all around to get to meet these people, but they were going to drop them right out of the church. It was to stop the money that they would pay for their work, and they were almost the only ones doing anything. Now the mischief began, and it has been going on and on.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 39

But I have seen them face to face. I have seen Brother Knox, and they repeated over to me about that theater business, and how she dresses, and how that Brother _____ was converted, and he was the most grateful, humble man, and after the meeting was closed that Brother and Sister Rice had been holding, after it was closed, he came up and saluted Brother Rice, and his wife was right by, and he kissed her. Now that went as though it was the unpardonable sin. It was not so at all. The meeting was dismissed and they were so envious and jealous, I knew just what they would do. ... That they would make so much of it, and exalt the enormity of it, there was no sense in it all.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 40

But these women, Oh, they would tell the most terrible things about Brother and Sister Rice. Now you see [how it] was—Brother Knox put those women in—he cannot read character—to go around, and to follow around where they go. There were two or three that were getting ready to take their position, and these women would go right in, and in their silly, foolish way—they know no more how to deal with human minds, and they should not carry out that work. But they appointed them in the place of Brother and Sister Rice.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 41

And that camp meeting, I never should have allowed it to go off as it did without taking them right in the desk and having them take their position. But I thought probably it was their choice not to go there, so I did not say anything at first. But when I saw what the matter was, [and] that the whole Berkeley church was absent, then I commenced my work in the house that I spoke in yesterday. And the elder there, he has got all indoctrinated with [the spirit of] Battle Creek, that the Testimonies are not anything—just the spirit of Battle Creek. I would not have anything to say to him. When I would speak, he would come up and give his testimony, and then he would take his hat and go out. That man is not to be depended on.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 42

Now this is the condition of the church. These women are making the most mischief. I am sorry that Brother Knox had no better judgment.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 43

There was a young man came in here—Horace Hare. He was determined that he would marry Maud Rice. They let him come in here. They took care of him. They boarded him for several weeks—a long time—and he would not do a thing. You could not keep him out of the house. There was work enough to be done, but he would not do it. They talked to him, and tried to reason with him. Finally they saw that he was determined to work his way so as to get Maud Rice. Well, Maud had not a particle of interest in him. At first, of course, they had to see what the man was, and they saw what he was, and they would not have him come into the family. The boy told lies to Maxson, and Maxson took him up to his place. Maxson, you know, has gone dead against the Testimonies for years.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 44

Bro. Simpson: Brother Maxson is getting quite a different experience during these meetings. He is a different man entirely. Yesterday I spoke on the Spirit of Prophecy and walked home with him, and he felt quite deeply touched with it.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 45

E.G.W.: Well, I hope so. He has been telling them—there was one coming into the truth from the outside, and they were telling him how they felt about it—“Oh, you should not pay any attention to this. Sister White is a very good woman, but all this Spirit of Prophecy, there is nothing in it.”21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 46

Bro. Saunders: I think he is a different man now, Sister White.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 47

Eld. Simpson: There is a wonderful change in the whole family. I baptized his children this morning.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 48

E.G.W.: Well, I hope something will get hold of him, but he has been set right against me, because I would not consent to things that he was carrying on in the institution at St. Helena. We opposed his putting meat on the table twice or three times a day, and we would not consent for him to do many things that he brought into the Institute. Finally he chose to come away and go to Oakland. You know how it has been, and yet he has been in the church, and he has taken part right along.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 49

Eld. Simpson: He admitted to me that he never had such an experience as he has had lately. He feels so anxious over things now that he is willing to drop everything he has on earth to go out and tell the people that the Lord is coming.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 50

E.G.W.: I wanted to say [that] now, under the existing circumstances, these women that are going around, they have got to be stopped. What to do I cannot tell. I might go to them, and talk with them, tell them all about it. ...21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 51

Brother Knox and Brother Corliss came up to talk with me. Now, said I, I want to tell you. You have talked with me. I have got a writing that I wrote out at San Jose, and when I got up to speak at San Jose, after Corliss had been to me, after I got up to speak on Sunday I laid it all out in principle. I did not make any reference to anyone, but I laid out the whole matter in principle, of dealing one with another just according to the Bible. I read the Bible rule and laid it all out before them. But they sat there indifferently. This discourse was taken down in shorthand and could not be found until recently. I find there is not a thing in it, only just the Bible, how [we are] to treat one another. But they sat there, and there was not the least thing to show that they were in harmony with me.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 52

I told Brother Corliss, You want me to help you get these people [the Rices] out of Berkeley. They have just got them a little house built, and they have worked early and late, done everything they could to get the place to live in. Now, said I, suppose you put yourself in their place. Suppose the case was yours, how would you like to be told, We do not want you here any longer? They may not have said it to them, but they have to others. The money that we pay out for Brother Rice and his wife we can forgo, and there they were, almost the only ones in Oakland that were trying to do anything to find entrance among the people. Said I, Would you like to be uprooted in that way—just get settled and thankful for a little home, and worked early and late to get it? Said I, [If] you send a man off with this impression on his mind, I would not vouch for what he would do, unless he could have this matter straightened out, and find out what he had done. This is what he must have done.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 53

They talked to me about their girl going to a theater, and this thing and that thing and the other. Now, brethren, said I, you have told me this; now I want to tell you something. Brother Knox, from the light God has given me I know where the failure is in your family. You do not bring you daughter into control. She rules the house, and I know the mistakes in your family. Brother Corliss, do you know where you have made your failures? Do not you know about your son? Do you not know how he had his own way and his own will and did just as he was a mind to do? Now brethren, this is an individual matter, and I speak to you straight. You both had better search your own hearts to find out how you stand before God. But for you to uproot a man and send him off into another place when he has a hold of the people and when they have access to the people, what kind of courage do you give that man? You are taking his foundation out from under him. What kind of courage can you give to a man to treat him in that way? You see just how you would feel to have such a course taken toward you. What chance would there be for your improving, and what encouragement would you have to carry on the work anywhere?21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 54

Now, Brother Simpson, the time has come for you to go away, and who are things to be left with? These women are going from place to place, they will talk to our people, and they [our people] will say, What is it that these women are doing? One woman says, My husband was just about to come out and identify himself with these people, and these women came and began their talk, and the way they talked and acted, they were thoroughly disgusted, and they wanted no more to do with these people. The woman had taken her position, and she cried and cried, when she told about it. Now these women are just as active now, and I must see them or write to them. Which is best, I hardly know.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 55

Now, this is the condition of things. There is Steele—he came from Battle Creek—and he has no settled position in regard to the testimonies at all. And he is acting as elder of that church. But these women, they stir up and stir up and go around and talk. I want this matter to be settled in the right way, and in an agreeable way. I do not want to meddle with anything, but I know the disposition of the women.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 56

Bro. Saunders: These two women are not the only ones.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 57

E.G.W.: Oh, no, there are others. It is not only they, but they are the ones that are the most prominent that are going at it. They are indoctrinating others and strengthening them in these things. That is why you have heard my testimony every time I have gotten up to speak. It is upon that point of putting away the evil surmising and jealousy and all these things, you know how I have talked about it and prayed about it.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 58

Bro. Saunders: Let me say one word to you, Sister White. I think in your last meeting before the one yesterday, when these people were there, I think [what you said] was a little misunderstood. You said Oakland, and really it was Berkeley, and some of the Oakland people misunderstood it.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 59

E.G.W.: I always identify Oakland with Berkeley.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 60

Bro. Simpson: If you could talk with the Berkeley church, it might get at the root of the matter.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 61

E.G.W.: I am willing to.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 62

Bro. Simpson: Because in a large congregation like the Oakland church many would not know. Many misunderstood it and thought it referred to Oakland.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 63

E.G.W.: I identify all these little churches with Oakland. I have always called it Oakland.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 64

Bro. Simpson: Eld. Hibbard is going to carry on things here Sabbaths and during the week to keep the workers together until something else develops.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 65

E.G.W.: From the knowledge that I have of the man, as far as his capability of opening the Scriptures is concerned, I would think he would do nicely, excellently. He has excellent qualities, and just as soon as I get opportunity I shall speak to him to let him know that I appreciate his capabilities and could not endure the thought that he could in any way spoil his influence before the people.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 66

Bro. Simpson: As far as Eld. Hibbard is concerned, personally I love the man because of his beautiful spirit, so free from jealousy. Now, in my work, coming in here and taking everything, the Lord giving me the hearts of the people, it is quite a thing for a minister to sit back and keep free from being jealous; and the very fact that he has had such a beautiful spirit through it all makes me love the man.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 67

E.G.W.: From the light that I have, there was a mistake made. When you took the meetings, Elder Haskell and his wife should have been carrying on their very work in their places right here.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 68

Bro. Simpson: I was disappointed that we could not work together. I had it all planned in my own mind.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 69

E.G.W.: I did not oppose their going, because I did not know from Knox’s position how he was standing. This idea that one man’s mind has got to keep correcting another man’s mind, that man will lose his soul, there is where it is. I am afraid of responsibilities coming onto young men. (Speaks of Eld. Reaser, and experience in purchasing Loma Linda, etc.)21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 70

Now, the question that I wanted to decide here is, Brother Haskell writes and fears he did not do right in not staying and uniting with Brother Simpson, that they might blend together. I know that his position in regard to the truth is just as our position has been, and as people are accepting Bible truth, he can educate minds, and together you could make a perfect whole. Would it not be a good thing for Eld. Haskell and his wife to come right in now?21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 71

Bro. Simpson: I see light in it. Eld. Hibbard could speak in the evening service occasionally or on Sabbath. He and Eld. Hibbard could work together.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 72

E.G.W.: We would not want to push Eld. Hibbard out. I wrote him a letter recently speaking of his tendency to the dramatic, and he wrote a very nice letter in response.21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 73

(Here the conversation turned on experiences in southern California, and lasted for some time.)21LtMs, Ms 149, 1906, par. 74

Ms 148, 1906

Ms 150, 1906